Interview with a Winner:
Chuck Oliver
The Chuck Oliver Team, Springfield , OH
2005 Origination Volume: $60 million
Average Loan Amount: $150,000
Software: Calyx Point and Mortgage Coach
Referral Source Mix: 25% managed client, 75% asset advisors (predominantly financial planners)
Boni Lonnsburry: How did you get started in the mortgage business, Chuck?
Chuck Oliver: I went to work for a finance company right out of college and didn’t enjoy the mortgage part of it. However, I did really enjoy helping clients free up cash flow and such, so I explored becoming a financial advisor. I saw myself as skilled in both the asset side and the liability side.
After taking a college course called “Successful Money Management,” I was actually approached by the instructor about becoming an advisor. He suggested that I look at specializing so I could work with clients who would value my skill set in reorganizing cash flow and freeing up money monthly for needs such as college funding, retirement planning or what have you. So I decided to carve a niche out in that market. I quickly addressed myself as a mortgage planner and a debt and equity advisor. I worked hand in hand with my clients just like an estate-planning attorney or a CPA would from a legal and accounting standpoint.
Since then, I’ve learned to really enjoy mortgages, even though I don’t see them as being what we actually do. A mortgage is just the conduit that we use to get to debt and equity planning.
Boni Lonnsburry: Wow. Were you immediately successful?
Chuck Oliver: You know, very much so. Things took off for me, and I’ve never looked back. I was able to fill a void that is quickly becoming more common today. It seems like everybody today calls themselves a “Mortgage Planner” because it’s a different title. By actually functioning as a planner, I’ve continued to differentiate myself in the marketplace. I’ve helped asset advisors build their practices by creating a system for seminar settings that they can plug their clients into. And when I do my annual review and my 36-month restructure planning, I’m actually showing the planners how they can build their practice.
I’ve been very fortunate to be one of the initial – Todd Duncan would say one of the “original” – pioneers of the mortgage planning focus. It’s fun making a difference for clients and their planners’ lives. It’s neat to see the results.
Boni Lonnsburry: So do you still target new planners?
Chuck Oliver: We do, but we’ve become more strategic about that. We’ve been introduced, through our more successful asset advisor relationships, to other planners in different parts of the country. We get a chance to really pick which advisors we want to work with. Todd Duncan has taught me well –you always have to be recruiting your farm club. So we’re always looking to help other advisors grow their business and, as a result, those that really understand the strategic alliance partnership are very interested in seeing their peer group build their practice.
Boni: That’s awesome.
Chuck: That’s why our volume has actually slowed. We’ve been spending the last few years really gearing up to be able to support what we know from our vision is going to be beyond our expectations even now.
Boni: That’s very exciting. So how do you make sure that they’re a “values and assets” match to you?
Chuck: We have a specifically defined filtering process. We used to take business wherever we could take it, and we all learned the hard way that it isn’t the best way. So our first filter is that the asset advisor has to let us do their own debt and equity advising –we require them to be an actual client. Then they usually refer us to other asset advisors. When they do, I’ll ask them to go on a conference call with us so that they can make the introduction to the asset advisor they want me to meet. Then we’ll go through a series of questions and a follow-up, almost like an interview, to find out where their business comes from and what their goals are.
Next we try to figure out whether or not we can meet their expectations – because in some cases that’s not going to happen. We also ask ourselves whether or not they are really someone we want to help. Are they someone that we can have fun with, grow with, and really make a difference with? Will they appreciate what we’re doing to help them build their practice? We continue to learn as we go, but that’s basically how we determine our potential for success ratio as opposed to failure –and so far it’s continually getting better and better.
Boni: So once you have accepted them, then what do you do for them?
Chuck: Todd Duncan had spoken for years about the concept of making your practice like Frank Sinatra, and it’s something that’s never left my mental thought process. It’s the theory of how to maximize your unique ability to the point where you ultimately just have to show up and sing and it will be obvious.
For me, that equated to something like a medical practice where I would have somebody else do the diagnosis and I would prescribe. I quickly discovered that “prescribing” is about the only unique ability that I have in this business. It’s also really the only one I enjoy doing: connecting with my clients and building relationships, whether those clients are strategic partners or the actual consumer themselves.
I’m very fortunate to be coached by Building Champions and Master’s Coach Programs with Todd Duncan, as well as being a “Duncanite” if you will. Through that coaching I decided to create a seminar where asset advisors could send their clients. We created a whole system around it. Our whole practice is built to support asset advisors in building their practice. From that, it kind of segued into creating an asset advisor site visit where we then invite the asset advisors that come and sit in and watch the other asset advisors and clients that we get to consult and teach and train. Then we invite them over to our office or headquarters and actually walk them through meeting our team, seeing our flow and our unique process. From there we actually require them to be their own client beta test.
My Strategic Partner and Client Care Coordinators, Bonita and Jody, will walk them through a mini value-based interview. That way they have a complete understanding of how their client will be taken care of before they refer their first client. We do a cross-referral back to the asset advisor, endorse them and then show them some of our system as it relates to the effectiveness of the equity repositioning analysis, including Mortgage Coach and the Rate Watch. And we’ve found, quite honestly, that not all asset advisors have an interest in what we do.
But if they are truly interested, we find out what their goals are and meet their team. And we share a lot of our best practices that we’ve been fortunate enough to get through Todd Duncan, Dave Savage with Mortgage Coach, and some of the other industry leaders. Once they get it, they’re very appreciative and look forward to growing the relationship even further.
We predominantly use the equity repositioning analysis piece from Mortgage Coach to give our clients a quick visual. Then we’ll carbon-copy their equity advisor with the equity repositioning analysis because that’s the tool that they now use and count on to know a) we’ve had the appointment consultation with their client, b) here’s where we found the money so that they can now go in and complete the plan, and c) it’s the conversation piece for them to follow up with the client that they’ve referred to us to be able to say, “I had a chance to review the impact of the equity management side of your planning and I’d like to set another time for you to sit down so we can go over the whole comprehensive planning piece now that we know what resources we have available to us.” Mortgage Coach’s equity repositioning analysis is the key part to everything we do with the asset advisor.
Boni: What mistakes do you see rookie loan officers making?
Chuck: Probably first and foremost, not having their “life plan” so to speak. The mistake I personally made for the last six years was not realizing the impact of having life coach, and then that coach being able to sit down and ask the tough questions such as “what do you want your business to look like?”
I see a lot of rookie loan officers following the crowd. They make the assumption that whoever they are modeling their business after is actually doing it the right way. They aren’t comfortable or confident enough to request a site visit with a more experienced professional in order to find a good way to do business. There are many successful originators out there and, as you well know, we have all built our practices a little differently.
As they progress from rookie to more experienced originator, they should never stop the learning process because obviously this industry is an ever-evolving industry. Continually be a student of our industry but, first and foremost, have a standard of who you do business with, who you won’t, what your business looks like, what hours you want to work, how much time you want to have personally during the year and then work that backwards. Define your day –don’t let your day define you.
Boni: Do you think that veteran loan officers make different mistakes?
Chuck: I think one of the greatest mistakes I see veterans making is not staying out in front of how quickly this industry changes. We’ve had a lot of team turnover in the industry and our client’s needs have also changed. Our products have changed quite a bit. Not everyone’s going to be able to run the status quo of the strict B5 straight purchase type loan officer. As a veteran loan officer, they should be developing themselves as advisors, and to do that, they’re going to have to pick up some designations. Get out and see how the best of the best are continually getting better.
Boni: If you had a son or a daughter entering this business, what advice would you give them?
Chuck: I have two young boys, Davis and Drake. They’re four and seven. And the advice I would give them, provided that they had an interest in this industry, would be first to get a coach. A coach would help them structure their practice and then from there really define what’s going to make them unique. I’d also encourage them to continually be a student of their trade.
Boni: Chuck, what was your most successful marketing campaign?
Chuck: My most successful marketing campaign would be our debt and equity management seminars. We show asset advisors how to successfully grow their practice with a strategic partner like a debt and equity advisor.
Boni: Do you stay in touch with your managed clients?
Chuck: We do. We send them annual review notifications and we do a lot of voice broadcasting. In fact, we met as a team this morning about getting the message out about the new conforming loan limits being raised to $417,000. We keep them aware of what the fed is doing with the prime rate, and any kind of new program or new product. We occasionally make book recommendations. We’re always staying in contact with our managed clients.
Boni: You call them with book recommendations?
Chuck: We make a point of finding out their interests. Then if we become aware of something that fits with their interests, we’ll send them the article or recommend the book. If there is a good book, like Todd Duncan’s “Time Traps” for instance, we’ll either send them a copy of it or recommend that they pick it up. We’re always adding value through knowledge, something I picked up from Tim Sanders, the chief solutions officer for Yahoo! himself. It has created pretty strong dividends for us. It’s tough to determine the direct dividends, but serving others has always been our platform.
Boni: Who or what would you say was the biggest contributor to your success?
Chuck: It’s hard to limit it to one. I would answer that by saying, first and foremost, The Lord –because he directed me to Building Champions, the organization that has coached me for the last five years. Dan Harkavy and Steve Scanlon have been instrumental in really helping me avoid a lot of pitfalls and have helped me jump out of a few pits too. I’m very fortunate and blessed to be part of the Masters Coach Group with Todd Duncan. Todd has been a huge contributor to my success. So between the good Lord, my coaches through Building Champions, Strategic Coach, and Todd Duncan, I’ve had the support I needed to become successful.
It would be unfair to leave out other leaders though, now that I’ve answered that. I’ve been very fortunate to be mentored by some of the best in our industry, including Steve Marshall and John Bell. They’ve all become very good friends. What you get from the Masters Coach piece is really a bond with 40 to 45 of the industry’s top producers. You get together quarterly and you trade best practices, trade secrets and such. It has been extremely helpful.
Boni: What are your goals now, Chuck?
Chuck: I’ve got so many of them. My business goals are to continually add value to the asset advisor and clients and show them how to build their practice and financial plan, and then continually follow how they evolve and what resources we need to have to support them.
One way to support them is through the creation of new positions. I’d like to create a Vision Coordinator position within our company, somebody I can hand my conference call and site visit notes to and have them create what I have envisioned. We’ve already created the position of Client Care Coordinator. The person in this position does the value-based interview initially with the clients that are referred by the asset advisor. We want to tweak and refine the position to make it better.
Another goal is to get involved in the senior planning market. We can enhance the financial advisor’s practice through this dual audience because most of them are working with an age group of 30 to 60. Within that age group, there’s a group of people who have parents who need senior planning, and it could make a huge difference. I call today the “sandwich generation.” Most of a financial planner’s clients are the “hamburger” between two “buns.” The bottom bun is their children, and the top bun is their parents. A good financial planner needs to be able to serve all three. So that’s a real big goal for us. We’re always trying to fine-tune our practice and make sure our unique ability team is as good as it can be. Those are some goals that we’re focused on going forward.
Boni: If you had a magic wand, what would you change about your business?
Chuck: I don’t want to be viewed as a mortgage guy. I’m really a financial advisor. I think our industry as a whole unfortunately still has quite a few bad apples. It would be great if we could set a standard so high that we could eliminate more of those bad apples. Because when I hear the words “mortgage broker” or hear the word “mortgage,” it just carries a negative context more so than positive. Those would be things I would like to change in the industry.
But as far as a change in my business, I would like to be able to instantly bring on the right unique ability team to really carry the momentum forward so we could be better faster and add value quicker to our vision.
Boni: Is there anything else you would like to leave for other originators who would aspire to the same type of success that you’ve created?
Chuck: I would really encourage them to be a student, as I said before. When I get a chance to speak around the country, that’s something I really want to make sure people understand. Whatever you think you know today is just not enough for tomorrow. I would also encourage them to have a servant attitude – they’re in the business to serve people. Serving others is possible with all the unique products that are out there and with all the unique needs that are out there.
Also, really define where you want to take your business and visit other offices to see how they are run. That’s something that will continue to give back to you time and time again. One of my favorite sayings is to “serve beyond understanding” I think that attitude has greatly contributed to the success we’ve been able to achieve.
I would highly recommend reading the book “Missed Fortune 101.” It relates to building a debt equity advisory practice. I also recommend the book “Love is the Killer APP” by Tim Sanders. Tim is the CSO (Chief Solutions Officer) for Yahoo! Foremost; make sure you have a good coach. Look into some coaching books. I’m not sure if there’s a good book resource for coaching, but make sure that you get to the events and things like that. I know Dave Savage does a lot of events with Mortgage Coach, including one where you really learn how to maximize your ability to be a planner as opposed to a mortgage originator. We have created our own site visit and seminar workshop, “Missed Practice!”, serving mortgage planners and asset advisors to grow their practices to the next level.
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